ONT Re: Zeroth Order Ontology
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ZOO. Discussion Note 1
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JA = Jon Awbrey
MA = Murray Altheim
TJ = Tom Johnston
JA: | Let us try to approach the question
| of "semantic inter-operability" (SIO)
| by way of the following sub-questions:
|
| 1. What is the "meaning" of a "finite set of sentences" (FSOS)?
|
| 2. What is the "meaning" of a "finite set of tuples" (FSOT)?
|
| 3. How shall we compare the "meanings" of these two?
JA: What we have here is a failure to intercommunicate between
extensional and intensional datasets/concepts, and that is
the problem that I would like to approach in the manner of
newborn babes, simplicity first, step-wise trying to crawl,
to walk, to run, perchance to fly, in that order, whatever
else it takes to get the idea across.
MA: *This* is what I've been waiting for. And unfortunately, I'll have
to wait a week until we continue (Jon is out-of-office until Nov.).
TJ: Yes, let's wait for Jon. Since extension and intension (the latter,
at least) were at the heart of my doctoral dissertation, I believe I
am not in the "student at the feet of the master" mode when discussing
this topic with Jon, at least not unless he succeeds in imposing the
mathematical language he is comfortable with on the discussion. I make
great efforts to use the vocabulary of others here, in the interest of
communicating across wide gaps in background. I think it would only be
hubris not to return the favor. This is why I don't wish to discuss my
SIDB (semantic interoperability of databases) issue by way of Jon's
three questions.
TJ: One could respond that, given the background of most participants in this
forum, there is a concensus that we MUST translate into that mathematical
language. My response would be that I think my contributions in this forum
have shown another language, or another dialect, in which some degree of
relevant communication seems to have succeeded. It's the dialect of the
Socratic Engineer vs. the dialect of the Mathematical Scientist. I extend
my hand across the gaping chasm, but refuse to lean so far that I fall in.
Will you and Jon reciprocally reach out?
Murray, Tom, et al.
Well, I'm back in the saddle and ready to go, and I do appreciate
the quiet time to catch up with the sun's relentless orbit and all,
but where did everybody go? -- back to the CLoysters, I guess.
What I hope to achieve by way of this dialogue, trialogue, hoi-polloi-logue,
is to lay out a maximally simple logical formalism -- if it makes some people
feel better to call it a toy system, that's okay by me, I always did like toys
of that variety. In my reflections by the sea I realized how much I've learned
about "chunky style storytelling" (CSS? -- no, I guess that one's already taken --
from Jack Park, so I think I'll just keep trying to mine that vein for all it's
worth, against the sunny day when he gets the Next*Nexist up and running again.
I am having some problems understanding what Tom is grumbling about.
This is an effort toward semantic inter-ops, so it has to integrate
diverse languages, styles, and points of view. And I don't see how
anyone can talk about relational databases without making heavy use
of both the logic of relative terms and the mathematics of relations.
So maybe Tom can explain what his reservations are about these things.
On the matter of ex-&-in-tensions, my feet are too blistered from
the hike up Diamondhead to display in public right now, so I will
just direct you to the Big Foot himself, in the excerpts I append.
Jon Awbrey
C.S. Peirce, Harvard Lectures (1865)
23. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000216.html -- CE 1, 272
24. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000217.html -- CE 1, 272-274
25. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000218.html -- CE 1, 274
26. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000219.html -- CE 1, 274-275
27. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000220.html -- CE 1, 275-276
28. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000221.html -- CE 1, 276
29. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000222.html -- CE 1, 276-277
30. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000223.html -- CE 1, 277
31. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000224.html -- CE 1, 278-279
32. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000225.html -- CE 1, 279-280
33. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000226.html -- CE 1, 280
34. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000227.html -- CE 1, 280-281
35. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000228.html -- CE 1, 281-282
36. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000229.html -- CE 1, 282-283
37. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000230.html -- CE 1, 283
38. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-April/000356.html -- CE 1, 285
39. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-April/000357.html -- CE 1, 285-286
40. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-April/000358.html -- CE 1, 286-288
41. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-April/000359.html -- CE 1, 288
42. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-April/000361.html -- CE 1, 288-289
43. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-April/000362.html -- CE 1, 289
44. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-April/000363.html -- CE 1, 289-290
C.S. Peirce, Lowell Lectures (1866)
11. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000204.html -- CE 1, 458-459
12. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000205.html -- CE 1, 459-460
13. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000206.html -- CE 1, 460
14. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000207.html -- CE 1, 461
15. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000208.html -- CE 1, 461
16. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000209.html -- CE 1, 462
17. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000210.html -- CE 1, 462
18. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000211.html -- CE 1, 462-463
19. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000212.html -- CE 1, 463-464
20. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000213.html -- CE 1, 464-465
21. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000214.html -- CE 1, 465
22. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000215.html -- CE 1, 466-467
02. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000195.html -- CE 1, 467
03. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000196.html -- CE 1, 467-468
04. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000197.html -- CE 1, 468-469
05. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000198.html -- CE 1, 469
06. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000199.html -- CE 1, 470
07. http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/000200.html -- CE 1, 470-471
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