Thread Links Date Links
Thread Prev Thread Next Thread Index Date Prev Date Next Date Index

ONT Re: Zeroth Order Theories (ZOT's)




¤~~~~~~~~~¤~~~~~~~~~¤~~~~~~~~~¤~~~~~~~~~¤~~~~~~~~~¤

Doug,

A day's reflection on my reply -- reaction? -- tells me that
it's bound to sound just a little bit peevish, so let me see
if I can explain some of the reasons for that.

First off, I do not trivialize the "real issues of ontology", indeed,
it is precisely my estimate of the non-trivial difficulty of this task,
of formulating the types of "generic ontology" that we propose to do here,
that forces me to choose and to point out the inescapability of the approach
that I am currently taking, which is to enter on the necessary preliminary of
building up the logical tools that we need to tackle the ontology task proper.
And I would say, to the contrary, that it is those who think we can arrive at
a working general ontology by sitting on the porch shooting the breeze about
"what it is" until the cows come home -- that is, the method for which it
has become cliche to indict the Ancient Greeks, though, if truth be told,
we'd have to look to the pre-socratics and the pre-stoics to find a good
match for the kinds of revelation that are common hereabouts -- I would
say that it's those folks who trivialize the "real issues of ontology".

A person, living in our times, who is serious about knowing the being of things,
really only has one choice -- to pick what tiny domain of things he or she just
has to know about the most, thence to hie away to the adept gurus of the matter
in question, forgeting the rest, cause "general ontology" is a no-go these days.
It is presently in a state like astronomy before telescopes, and that means not
entirely able to discern itself from astrology and other psychically projective
exercises of wishful and dreadful thinking like that.

So I am busy grinding lenses ...

Jon Awbrey

¤~~~~~~~~~¤~~~~~~~~~¤~~~~~~~~~¤~~~~~~~~~¤~~~~~~~~~¤

DM = Douglas McDavid
JA = Jon Awbrey

DM: This, again, is an example of how real issues of ontology are
    so often trivialized at the expense of technicalities.  I just
    had a burger, some fries, and a Coke.  I would say all that was
    non-living and non-mineral.  A virus, I believe is non-animal,
    non-vegetable, but living (and non-mineral).  Teeth, shells,
    and bones are virtually pure mineral, but living.  These are
    the kinds of issues that are truly "ontological," in my
    opinion.  You are not the only one to push them into
    the background as of lesser importance.  See the
    discussion of "18-wheelers" in John Sowa's book.

JA: it's not my example, and from you say, it's not your example either.
    copied it out of a book or a paper somewhere, too long ago to remember.
    i am assuming that the author or tardition from which it came must have
    seen some kind of sense in it.  tell you what, write out your own theory
    of "what is" in so many variables, more or less, publish it in a book or
    a paper, and then folks will tell you that they dispute each and every
    thing that you have just said, and it won't really matter all that much
    how complex it is or how subtle you are.  that has been the way of all
    ontology for about as long as anybody can remember or even read about.
    me?  i don't have sufficient arrogance to be an ontologist, and you
    know that's saying a lot, as i can't even imagine a way to convince
    myself that i believe i know "what is", really and truly for sure
    like some folks just seem to do.  so i am working to improve our
    technical ability to do logic, which is mostly a job of shooting
    down the more serious delusions that we often get ourselves into.
    can i be of any use to ontologists?  i dunno.  i guess it depends
    on how badly they are attached to some of the delusions of knowing
    what their "common" sense tells them everybody ought to already know,
    but that every attempt to check that out in detail tells them it just
    ain't so.  a problem for which denial was just begging to be invented,
    and so it was.

¤~~~~~~~~~¤~~~~~~~~~¤~~~~~~~~~¤~~~~~~~~~¤~~~~~~~~~¤