SUO: RE: RE: RE: On the relevance of EXPRESS, EPISTLE, etc. to SUO -- RE: RE: RE: Some Procedural Suggestions
Dear Matthew,
You wrote:
> In EPISTLE we modestly claim that the EPISTLE Core Model can
> represent "life the universe and everything" (well almost).
OK, how about the phrase "life, the universe and everything" as another
"challenge concept"? How would you represent this in EPISTLE? It seems this
could be interesting... How well can any existing ontology framework
represent the fullness of this "grand challenge concept", the range of
things that people think of (or may think of) when they hear the LTUAE
phrase? (Considering they may think for quite a long time about it..)
One answer may be that LTUAE refers to the full scope and content of a
complete ontology itself. In which case the question because, how well can
the ontology represent itself, and all other possible ontologies?
> For some 8 years now I have regularly issued a challenge for people to try
> to identify things it can't represent (provided you accept the 4D
paradigm).
Can you give examples of things that EPISTLE can't represent because they
are outside the 4D paradigm?
> We know were some limits are, but it is quite unusual for anyone to find
> them.
Can you give us a summary of the limits you currently know of? (That will
save us time finding them :-)
> The worst that has ever happened is I have learnt something.
That can also be the best that happens :-)
> Well that ought to do it ??
I think so... Presumably, Pat Hayes now has this on his list of things to
think about :-)
This is fun -- I haven't typed so many smileys in a while :-)
Cheers,
Phil
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>
> Regards
> Matthew
> ============================================
> Matthew West
> Operations & Asset Management
> Shell Services International
> H3229, Shell Centre, London, SE1 7NA, UK.
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> ============================================
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Philip Jackson [mailto:phil.jackson@computer.org]
> > Sent: 08 February 2001 12:55
> > To: West, Matthew MR SSI-GREA-UK; Standard-Upper-Ontology (E-mail)
> > Cc: pat hayes
> > Subject: RE: RE: On the relevance of EXPRESS, EPISTLE, etc. to SUO --
> > RE: RE: RE: Some Procedural Suggestions
> >
> >
> > Dear Matthew (and Pat),
> >
> > First, using the Odysseus search page
> > (http://odysseus.ieee.org/) I answered
> > my request for more information about EXIST: I found your June 19 2000
> > posting to SUO which included links to information about EPISTLE
> > (http://www.stepcom.ncl.ac.uk/epistle) and the related IIDEAS
> > effort at
> > (http://www.pdtsolutions.co.uk/iideas/). Following these links at
> > (http://www.pdtsolutions.co.uk/iideas/pwi/index.html) there
> > are pointers to
> > information about the EXIST language, dated May 2, 2000.
> >
> > Secondly, regarding your discussion, separately posted in a
> > reply to Adam
> > Pease, of the following "challenge concepts" proposed by Pat Hayes:
> >
> > > > > > an 'information-bearing object' (see my long comment in a
> > > > > > recent message);
> > > > > > a piece of a certain kind of cloth which was used in evidence
> > > > > > in a trial;
> > > > > > the color of that piece of cloth;
> > > > > > the act of breaking an egg by hitting it on the side
> > of a bowl;
> > > > > > a style of dress used by a certain social class in
> > > > > > 17th-century France;
> > > > > > the shape of Marilyn Monroe's left ankle;
> > > > > > the cause of the Concorde disaster;
> > > > > > a dish (in the sense that Eggs Benedict is a dish, ie
> > a something
> > > > > > that could be a menu item; as opposed to any
> > particular example of
> > > > > > that dish, or the symbols on the menu describing it.)
> >
> > As I said, I found your discussion of these concepts very
> > interesting -- the
> > process of discussing how challenge concepts like these can
> > be represented
> > is very helpful, both in testing the representational power of an
> > ontological framework, and in conveying information to others
> > about the
> > scope, content, philosophy, etc. of the framework.
> >
> > No doubt, there will be a lot more discussion in SUO regarding the
> > representation of these particular concepts. However, when
> > Pat originally
> > posted this list of concepts, he wrote "If you need more, let
> > me know". I
> > hope that he (and others) will post more such concepts, to
> > help further
> > explore the possibilities for EPISTLE and other ontological
> > frameworks.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Phil Jackson
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is
> > limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Einstein
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Standard Disclaimers. www.philjackson.prohosting.com
> >
>