SUO: Re: Call for Volunteers for Methodology Project
Jon,
To a degree, you are correct. There is a mild conflict, but the
significance doesn't come close to mattering enough to worry about. It's
far better to have a passionate leader than an unbiased one for projects
like this. Both groups must follow consensus and votes, so the leader has
very little ultimate control. Unless there builds a consensus to appoint
someone other than Matthew, would you reconsider your objection?
Jim
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:04:08 -0400 Jon Awbrey <jawbrey@att.net> writes:
> o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
>
> Matthew,
>
> I am sorry that you have elected to dismiss
> this important question quite so frivolously,
> and to reduce it, against all of my careful
> qualifications, to the immediate question.
>
> Jim,
>
> I now make formal objection to proceeding with these appointments
> until
> the logically prior question formulated below has been resolved,
> either
> by a vote, or if possible by consulting prior guidelines and
> precedents
> that may hopefully already be established for resolving such
> questions:
>
> | Shall a person who is the leader of a special project
> | also be permitted to serve as the leader of the project
> | for deciding the general methodology of our proceedings?
>
> I would appreciate any help that you and the rest of the membership
> may be able to provide with regard to formulating this substance of
> this motion properly, or with researching the applicable
> guidelines.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jon Awbrey
>
> o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
>
> West, Matthew R SITI-ITPSIE wrote:
> >
> > Dear Jon,
> >
> > There are always distortions, whoever gets the job (yes even
> me!!!)
> >
> > That is why there is a call for volunteers, and the community can
> > vote from amongst those who volunteer. That process we already
> have,
> > though informally.
> >
> > I appreciate the niceties that we are creating a document that
> will
> > apply to itself. I think that will give what we are doing an
> extra
> > frissant.
> >
> > Matthew West
> > Principal Consultant
> > Shell Information Technology International Limited
> > Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom
> >
> > Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Other Tel: +44 7796 336538
> > Email: matthew.west@shell.com
> > Internet: http://www.shell.com
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jon Awbrey [mailto:jawbrey@att.net]
> > > Sent: 23 October 2003 12:08
> > > To: SUO
> > > Cc: West, Matthew R SITI-ITPSIE; Jim Schoening
> > > Subject: Re: Call for Volunteers for Methodology Project
> > >
> > >
> > > o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
> > >
> > > Matthew,
> > >
> > > This was just a worry that occurred to me very late in the
> process.
> > > I am sure that you understand that this worry is wholly
> independent
> > > of your particular case, which I personally consider to be the
> best
> > > of all possible cases -- indeed, I withdrew my own volunteership
> for
> > > the methodology task when when you announced yours, with the
> thought
> > > being "Who better?".
> > >
> > > But here and now we are talking about the institution of a
> > > general rule,
> > > at the very least, the setting of a precedent, that will
> > > serve to guide
> > > us and to determine our proceedings throughout what we may
> > > hope to be a
> > > happy and indefinite future of cases whose particulars remain
> > > unforeseen,
> > > and there our general, if slightly unpleasant duty is to
> consider also
> > > the worst case scenarios, and not just the best.
> > >
> > > So here we are, already talking about a particular question
> > > of methodology,
> > > before we can even get down to deciding our next step in the
> > > more general
> > > course of settling on methodology.
> > >
> > > The question, then, expressed in generic terms, would be:
> > >
> > > | Shall a person who is the leader of a particular project,
> > > | also be permitted to serve as the leader of the project
> > > | for deciding the general methodology of our proceeding?
> > >
> > > That is just my first off-the-cuff draft of a formulation,
> > > and I will call on others to help me capture the essence
> > > of the question.
> > >
> > > As I said, it was only rather tardily that a number of
> > > worst case scenarios began to tug at my attention, but
> > > I can hardly bring myself to doubt that, if you call on
> > > your own imagination, in the generic case independently
> > > of your own immediate situation, you will see what I am
> > > worried about. Namely, the possibility of a distortion
> > > arising that would be deleterious to the optimal conduct
> > > of our proceedings, on account of general and particular
> > > interests becoming confounded in and also by a particular
> > > individual.
> > >
> > > That is my present concern.
> > >
> > > In sum, the question is not about the possible lack of
> motivation,
> > > for we already enjoy a maximal case scenario in that respect,
> with
> > > a verifiable abundance of highly motivated individuals. The
> issue
> > > is more to the point of having many different directions of
> motive,
> > > a panoply of "vectors" of individual motivations, if you will,
> and
> > > that brings us finally to the really big question: How can all
> of
> > > these diverse thrusts be brought to sum up to a positive
> resultant
> > > along the lines of commonly espoused aims, and not borne off
> track
> > > by the overweighting of private benefits and special interests?
> > >
> > > That is the question.
> > >
> > > Jon Awbrey
> > >
> > > o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
> > >
> > > West, Matthew R SITI-ITPSIE wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Jon,
> > > >
> > > > I've not quite disappeared yet.
> > > >
> > > > I would argue the opposite. It should be a comfort that the
> > > > Project Leader for one of the projects leads the procedures
> > > > project, because it makes it more likely that they will
> > > > support the development of projects. Having someone
> > > > motivated for the product of a project in charge of
> > > > it has always been seen as a good thing where
> > > > I come from.
> > > >
> > > > I would hope that the other project leaders would be active
> in
> > > > the development of this project too, as well as those who
> feel
> > > > that the projects have got out of control and are
> unresponsive.
> > > >
> > > > In any case the checks and balances are in place. The SUO
> Group is the
> > > > final authority, and the project leader -- to be effective --
> must serve
> > > > the Group. Developing stuff that gets rejected is just a
> waste of time.
> > > >
> > > > Matthew West
> > > > Principal Consultant
> > > > Shell Information Technology International Limited
> > > > Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom
> > > >
> > > > Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Other Tel: +44 7796 336538
> > > > Email: matthew.west@shell.com
> > > > Internet: http://www.shell.com
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Jon Awbrey [mailto:jawbrey@att.net]
> > > > > Sent: 23 October 2003 04:27
> > > > > To: jim.s3@juno.com
> > > > > Cc: standard-upper-ontology@ieee.org; West, Matthew R
> SITI-ITPSIE
> > > > > Subject: Re: Call for Volunteers for Methodology Project
> and
> > > > > 4D Ontology
> > > > > Project
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure that I would want to pose it as an objection,
> and I wouldn't
> > > > > want to start a discussion of the question unless Matthew
> can be present
> > > > > for it, but I would like there to be some consideration of a
> possible
> > > > > conflict of interest between the same person being champion
> of one
> > > > > particular project and also overseeing the development of
> general
> > > > > procedures for evaluating all projects, including his/her
> own.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jon Awbrey
> > > > >
> > > > > o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
> > > > >
> > > > > jim.s3@juno.com wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SUO WG,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are there any objections to Matthew West serving as
> Project Leader
> > > > > > of the Methodology Project and the 4D Ontology Project?
> > > > > > There were no other volunteers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim Schoening
> > > > > > Chair, SUO WG
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > From: "West, Matthew R SITI-ITPSIE"
> <matthew.west@shell.com>
> > > > > > To: <jim.s3@juno.com>
> > > > > > Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:59:40 +0100
> > > > > > Subject: RE: Call for Volunteers for Methodology Project
> > > > > > and 4D Ontology Project
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I volunteer to serve as Project Leader for both projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matthew West
> > > > > > Principal Consultant
> > > > > > Shell Information Technology International Limited
> > > > > > Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Other Tel: +44 7796 336538
> > > > > > Email: matthew.west@shell.com
> > > > > > Internet: http://www.shell.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: jim.s3@juno.com [mailto:jim.s3@juno.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: 14 October 2003 03:44
> > > > > > > To: standard-upper-ontology@ieee.org
> > > > > > > Subject: SUO: Call for Volunteers for Methodology
> Project
> > > > > > > and 4D Ontology Project
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Following on from the recent ballot, this is a call for
> > > > > > > volunteers to server as Project Leader for one or both
> > > > > > > of the Methodology Project and 4D Ontology Project.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim Schoening
> > > > >
> > > > > o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
> > > o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
> o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~
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