SUO: RE: Re: Voting rules

I distinguish letter ballots as those of the type I receive from IEEE for region representatives and IEEE officers. Enclosed I find a ballot and narrative describing the position of each candidate or bylaw question - I rarely know the candidate and have never seen the question. Such ballots are sent to the entire IEEE membership and no quorum is defined for determination of results because indeed achieving the quorum is not practical. It is kind of like going to the polling place to vote for public officials but in that case physical presence is required except for special personal situations.

However, in this present case, I consider us to be participating in a meeting with open discussion and presentations. We are doing everything we would do in a face to face situation - it is just extended in time. We established a means to identify voting members and now a quorum of those members is necessary to validate a vote. You seem to think that to carry a motion requires a majority of the voting members to affirm and that is incorrect. We have not established a majority of voting membership to carry rule. The following is required: YES+NO+ABSTAIN>Voting_Members/2 with YES>NO. I think we have the interest of enough voting members to achieve a response to the question call of 45 voting members. If someone has endured this effort for this long and responded to your inquiry regarding voting membership, I'd consider that an sign of active voters. We use an open voting period and ballots are not secret. You could post an ongoing total and ask non-voters to exercise their participatory obligation - we are voting members because we have voted in the past or are showing current interest. State the quorum needed, call the questions and let's get on with the vote.

Cheers,

Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: jim.s3@juno.com [mailto:jim.s3@juno.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 10:26 PM
To: skydog@pacbell.net
Cc: standard-upper-ontology@ieee.org; pcassidy@bellatlantic.net
Subject: SUO: Re: Voting rules - Quorum

Bob,

You say my interpretation is incorrect and you quote these other IEEE sources, but you don't explain what a quorum means in terms of an email ballot. Do you mean a majority of voters must vote YES? The directives below don't say anything like this. Even in an in-person meeting, a majority must only be present, not actually vote, or vote YES.

So, please, explain to us how a quorum would work in an email ballot. We're sending this to everyone, except for a few who we haven't reached yet. Do you want to see a majority acknowledge receipt? I did that previously and will do so again. If you think a majority must vote YES, please provide your basis for this. But I ask, with about 88 voting membes, what if 44 drop out? How can the others proceed?

Jim

On Sat, 24 May 2003 20:02:04 -0700 Robert Grayson Spillers <skydog@pacbell.net> writes:

In response to Pat Cassidy on 5/23/03 Jim Schoening wrote:
Patrick,

        Some RRO clarifications on rules:

1. A quorum is only required for in-person meetings, to prevent a
minority of voting members from making decisions.  Email ballots are
similar to letter ballots, which are sent to all voting members, so all
(except those who have lost touch) have a chance to vote.

2. There is no requirement for a certain percentage of voting members to
cast ballots.  A vote could pass with YES=1, N0=0, ABSTAIN=0, and 85
people not voting. 

3. You do not need to vote to retain voting rights.  The only voting rule
we adopted was the 6-month waiting period.  

4. Your idea for subgroups is good, but they would work via consensus or
informal votes.  

        Please correct me, anyone, if I'm incorrectly interpreting RRO.
Jim Schoening
Jim,
Your interpretation of the nature and requirement for a quorum is incorrect.

On Dec 10, 2001 the Manager of IEEE-SA Governance sent a message to you advising you
that by unanimous vote:
The IEEE-SA BOG considered the inquiries of the IEEE 1600.1 working group
and the opinion of 7 November 2001 offered by Dorsey and Whitney and
concurs with and reaffirms the opinion stated.
...
Further, the IEEE-SA BOG encourages the IEEE-SA Standards Board to instruct
the IEEE P1600.1 working group on the principles of consensus in the
working group processes.
A part of the opinion referenced was the response from the IEEE Corporate Governance Office to questions
regarding (among other topics) a quorum. Lyle Smith, IEEE Institute Parliamentarian wrote:

I have reviewed your questions with IEEE Legal counsel Robert Dwyer of
Dorsey & Whitney, and Director Emeritus Eric Herz who is commissioned by
the IEEE President to be the liason with governance and legal issues.
The following questions about parliamentary procedure for the SUO were answered by the Parliamentarian:
   (6) What is the size (percent) of a quorum (assuming no parliamentary procedures - e.g. bylaws - other than RRO)

          Answer. A majority of voting members, (Specified in Ny Statute and IEEE Bylaws).

    (7) Is a quorum required to pass a motion?

          Answer. Yes, unless a quorum had been established, some members have left and nobody has questioned whether a quorum still exists It is then presumed to exist.

    (8) May the chair declare that a quorum is unnecessary?

          Answer. NO

     (9) May the rules on voting or quorums be changed without

                   (a) a vote
                   (b) a quorum
                   (c) a two thirds vote in favor of the change(s)

           Answer. No, no, and no. A quorum is established by law, or by Certificate of Incorporation, or in the IEEE Bylaws

Jim, none of this is new news to you. You have been specifically instructed on these matters and you are bound by those instructions.

Bob Spillers