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RE: SUO: Logic and Ontology




Dear Chris,

Thank you. I was rather hoping for a response like this.

See some comments/questions below.

Matthew West
Principal Consultant
Shell Information Technology International Limited
Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom

Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Other Tel: +44 7796 336538
Email: matthew.r.west@is.shell.com
Internet: http://www.shell.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Menzel [mailto:cmenzel@tamu.edu]
> Sent: 05 March 2002 19:26
> To: West, Matthew R SITI-ITPSIE
> Cc: Standard-Upper-Ontology (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: SUO: Logic and Ontology
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 04:10:08PM +0100, West, Matthew R 
> SITI-ITPSIE wrote:
> > I was recently sent a copy of Axiomathes, and noticed a paper
> > with the above title.
> > 
> > Cocchiarella, Nino B.; "Logic and Ontology", Axiomathes 12: 
> 117-150, 2001
> > 
> > The part of the paper that interested me was the different
> > interpretations that could be made of predication, depending on
> > whether your basic ontology is based on nominalism, 
> conceptualism, or
> > realism (or some graduation between).
> > 
> > One of these, attributed to Quine, sems to coincide with my own 
> > interpretation of predication, and I repeat it here.
> > 
> > "Quine's understanding of his ontology as platonistic and of sets
> > as universals is based on a rather involuted argument, 
> 
> To say the least.
> 
> > the essentials of which are as follows: 
> >
> > if we were to adopt platonism as a theory of universals as 
> represented
> > by higher order logic in which predicate as well as individual
> > variables can be bound, then
> > 
> > 1. predicate quantifiers can be given a referential ontological
> > interpretation only if predicates are (mis)construed as 
> singular terms
> > (i.e. terms that can occupy the argument or subject positions of
> > predicates); and
> 
> There is a false assumption here, namely, that because the 
> predicates of
> natural language cannot be grammatical subjects, it is 
> therefore somehow
> wrong to allow the predicates of a *logical* language to occur as
> logical subjects (i.e., to occur in subject position in atomic
> formulas).  But this is a confusion.  True enough, natural language
> predicates like "is a philosopher" cannot occupy the subject positions
> of natural language sentences; we can't say, e.g., "Is a 
> philosopher is
> a property".  Rather, you have to choose some nominalized counterpart,
> e.g., the gerund "being a philosopher" if you want to have a 
> legitimate
> noun phrase.  But it is a confusion to argue that it is therefore
> illegitimate in a *logical* language to allow predicates to occur in
> subject position, e.g., to allow both
> 
> (1) (philosopher Quine)
> 
> and
> 
> (2) (property philosopher).
> 
> But why?  A nominalized predicate denotes exactly what the predicate
> itself expresses.  "Being a philosopher" denotes exactly the 
> property we
> attribute to Quine when we say "Quine is a philosopher".  Why 
> should we
> therefore not allow a single logical expression to play the roles of
> both natural language expressions?  We can tell those roles 
> apart simply
> by observing where the logical expression occurs:  
> "philosopher" in (1),
> occurring as it does in predicate position, corresponds to the NL
> predicate "is a philosopher"; "philosopher" in (2), occurring 
> as it does
> in subject position, corresponds in this instance to the 
> gerundive form
> of the predicate, viz., "being a philosopher".  Simple.

MW: Good.  I agree.
> 
> If you MUST have something corresponding to nominalization, 
> introduce a
> term forming operator ^ that applies to predicates; then 
> instead of (2)
> you can write
> 
> (2') (property ^philosopher).
> 
> But note that ^ plays NO semantic role whatsoever and hence is only
> superfluous syntactic sugar, and in fact a potential source of
> confusion that is best avoided.

MW: Not for me.
> 
> > 2. assuming extensionality,
> 
> If you want, though there are tons of troublesome counterexamples
> (discussed here at great length a long time back).  I'll simply note,
> with no intention of defending it, that you can't do justice to modal
> intuitions on this assumption, unless you are willing to countenance
> merely possible objects.

MW: Which I am of course, and it fits well with a 4D perspective.
>  
> > 3. predicates, as singular terms, can only denote sets, ...
> 
> Assuming the preceding highly problematic assumption.
> 
> > 4. [which] must then also be the universals that are the 
> values of the
> > predicate variables in predicate positions; and therefore
> > 
> > 5. predication must be the same as membership, in which case
> > 
> > 6. we might as well replace predicate variables by individual
> > variables (thereby accepting nominalism's exclusion of 
> bound predicate
> > variables) and take sets as values of the individual variables,
> > arriving thereby at 
> > 
> > 7. a first order theory of membership (set theory) which
> 
> Yes, you could perhaps do that, but now I *do* think you lose 
> something
> important, as all predication on this approach is reduced to a single
> exemplification (or, if you will, membership) predicate.  Seems to me
> that this *does* miss something important about meaning that 
> is revealed
> in natural language.  When we say "Quine is a philosopher", we mean
> simply that Quine is a philosopher; we are predicating that property
> directly of Quine. We do *not* mean that Quine and being a philosopher
> stand in the exemplification (or, if you will, membership) relation,
> which, if I'm understanding correctly, is what we would have to be
> expressing on the Quinean view.  Of course, it is *true* that 
> Quine and
> being a philospoher stand in the exemplification (membership) relation
> if, and only if, Quine is a philosopher; my claim is only that that is
> not what we *mean* when we say "Quine is a philosopher"; it is rather
> what we mean when we say "Quine exemplifies being a philosopher" and
> hence refer to the exemplification relation explicitly.  Hence, the
> reduction to a single exemplification (or membership) 
> relation seems to
> miss an important fact about meaning.

MW: Well I don't think in terms of exemplification (which I assume has
nominalist associations) but straight membership. When I say "Quine is a
philosopher" I mean "Quine is a member of the class philosopher". I don't 
see this as being the same as exemplifies - which for me would imply some
sense of being stereotypical, rather than just a matter of happenstance
which membership is.
> 
> > 8. is platonist because it has abstract entities as values 
> of its one
> > type of variable.
> >
> > Thus beginning with higher order logic with bound predicate 
> variables
> > as a version of platonism, we arrive at the nominalist position to
> > recognise only quantification with respect to individual 
> variables (or
> > the subject positions of predicates) but with individual variables
> > that can have abstract sets as their values, which are therefore
> > really universals (i.e.  entities that have a predicable nature)"
> 
> A good rendition of the argument, I think; but serious problems with
> steps 1 and 2, as noted.
> 
> > Well I'm sure there are some bits of that that have gone 
> over my head,
> > but the bottom line is that predication = membership is a possible
> > interpretation of predication, 
> 
> Yes, though, as noted, this follows from highly dubious premises.
> 
> > The bottom line here as far as I can see is that without stating a
> > particular meaning for predication, KIF is ambiguous. 
> 
> No more than any formal language that requires interpretation.
> 
> > Or perhaps I should say that when you use KIF, you need to state the
> > meaning of predication you are using.
> 
> Well, yes; it's called semantics.  KIF has a well-defined 
> semantics. In
> KIF 3.0, predication was in fact taken to be membership.   On 
> the latest
> semantics (for the above reasons, among others) it is not, 
> though it is
> *consistent* with the semantics to understand predication as 
> membership;
> that is, there are formal models of KIF in which properties are sets,
> and hence in which predication is membership.  But this is not an
> assumption of the semantics itself.

MW: Good. So predication does mean membership, but by a different route.
I also assume that strict extensionality is not implied.
> 
> > It strikes me that using different interpretations of 
> predication adds
> > to the difficulties of integrating ontologies with different
> > ontologies of logic. 
> 
> Well, then don't use different interpretations.  Not sure what your
> point is here.

MW: Well I had missed that there was a well-defined semantics in KIF.
When I last read KIF 3, I probably wouldn't have understood its
significance. Since there is one, this means that using any other
interpretation is non-conformant use of the language, (or at least
this should be part of the conformance requirements).

MW: Further, I can live with these semantics, because my use, which
would include strict extensionality, is a subset of those that don't
have strict extensionality. Right?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -chris
> 
> --
> 
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