Thread Links Date Links
Thread Prev Thread Next Thread Index Date Prev Date Next Date Index

RE: SUO: Ballot Comment - 3D versus 4D.




>Dear John,
>
>If we get as far as a 4D ontology within the SUO I
>don't see why this perspective should not be supported.
>
>I would like to comment on this.
>
> >  5. I agree with Pat that the per- descriptions are often more prolix
> >     than the en- descriptions for many common ways of talking about
> >     the world.  That is partly because people have developed a large
> >     vocabulary of common expressions that would require very extended
> >     translations if mapped into the primitives of the per-
> > perspective.
>
>En- descriptions are strongly influenced by language, and the primary
>use of language is to communicate, rather than to store, knowledge.
>Evolution has meant that language has developed to be very efficient
>at communication, i.e. the minimum size of exchange to convey what is
>required. However, this is based on assuming the maximum amount of
>context knowledge on each side. This context knowledge is an essential,
>but usually implicit, part of any communication.
>
>My conjecture is that whilst en- is more efficient for communication,
>per- will turn out to be more appropriate for storage of the whole (what
>is communicated plus the context). This arises from the high level of
>reuse that is achieved from the more context neutral nature of per-
>descriptions.

I largely agree with the conclusion, and wholeheartedly agree with 
the point about communication versus storage.

Pat


>Matthew West
>Principal Consultant
>Shell Information Technology International Limited
>Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom
>
>Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Other Tel: +44 7796 336538
>Email: matthew.r.west@is.shell.com
>Internet: http://www.shell.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John F. Sowa [mailto:sowa@bestweb.net]
> > Sent: 03 September 2001 16:33
> > To: Horn, Graham
> > Cc: 'pat hayes'; West, Matthew R SITI-GREA-UK;
> > standard-upper-ontology@ieee.org
> > Subject: Re: SUO: Ballot Comment - 3D versus 4D.
> >
> >
> > Pat, Graham, and Matthew,
> >
> > I agree with Pat on the general issues, but I have a somewhat
> > different way of expressing them.  As I have said in some previous
> > notes (and my KR book), I prefer Whitehead's 4D representation,
> > which accommodates many different ways of describing physical
> > entities:
> >
> >  1. W's basic physical entities are processes (which he calls
> >     actual occasions or actualities).  Each such entity has a
> >     very short duration (not a zero-lenth instant, but a short
> >     interval that depends on granularity).
> >
> >  2. Enduring physical objects are extended processes that are
> >     characterized by various "forms of definiteness", such as the
> >     geometrical shape of a crystal or the DNA of a plant or animal.
> >
> >  3. You can talk about variations over time or over space by looking
> >     at the first derivatives with respect to time coordinates or space
> >     coordinates.  A slow change has a small continuous derivative,
> >     and a so-called discrete change has a very large derivative,
> >     which may be considered a discontinuity.
> >
> >  4. For both the en- and per- methods of description, the processes
> >     characterized by "forms of definiteness" are important.  They are
> >     called "physical objects", and they can be described as "changing"
> >     through time, if one wants to use that way of talking.  But the
> >     underlying actual occasions are identical from every viewpoint,
> >     and they form the basis for relating one description to another.
> >
> >  5. I agree with Pat that the per- descriptions are often more prolix
> >     than the en- descriptions for many common ways of talking about
> >     the world.  That is partly because people have developed a large
> >     vocabulary of common expressions that would require very extended
> >     translations if mapped into the primitives of the per-
> > perspective.
> >
> >  6. Whitehead is often criticized for inventing his own
> > highly technical
> >     vocabulary, but to a large extent, that criticism misses
> > the point.
> >     W. was trying to develop a way of talking that could express
> >     the concepts that were significant for both the en- and per-
> >     vocabularies.  Therefore, he had to coin many new words to express
> >     the highly general concepts that were missing from both.
> >
> > For an introduction to Whitehead's point of view, you can start with
> > his 1920 book, _Concept of Nature_, which is available on the web:
> >
> >    http://paradigm.soci.brocku.ca/~lward/Whitehead/White1_pref.html
> >
> > His vocabulary in this book isn't as technical, since he was just
> > getting started in developing this point of view.  (He had already
> > written his book _Principles of Relativity_, in which he presented
> > his own formalism as an alternative to Einstein's.  For all results
> > that were observable at that time, Whitehead's method and Einstein's
> > gave equivalent results, but there are some newer results which
> > agree better with Einstein's version than with Whitehead's.  But
> > in any case, W. certainly knew how to represent 4D.)
> >
> > For his later work, see the following books (all available in
> > paperback):
> >
> >    Science and the modern world (1925)
> >
> >    Process and Reality (1929)
> >
> >    Adventueres of Ideas (1933)
> >
> >    Modes of Thought (1938)
> >
> > Process and Reality is the most technical, but also the most complete
> > presentation of his ontology.  If you find it hard to read,
> > don't worry.
> > That is what happens to most people, including professional
> > philosophers.
> > But the other books are more accessible, and after going back to PR
> > from time to time, you begin to see the need for a level of concepts
> > that can relate the en- and per- terminologies to each other.
> >
> > Whitehead is noted for making statements that are widely quoted out
> > of context -- not incorrectly, but without the underlying
> > philosophical
> > issues he was trying to make.  But they still make good
> > reading anyway.
> > Following is a list of some of them:
> >
> >
> > http://www-groups.dcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/~history/Quotations/Whi
>tehead.html
>
>John Sowa

---------------------------------------------------------------------
(650)859 6569 w
(650)494 3973 h (until September)
phayes@ai.uwf.edu 
http://www.coginst.uwf.edu/~phayes